Golden advice for winning in business and in life. EP #118 - JM Schoeny

business podcast Sep 24, 2020

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Today we have JM Schoeny in the studio. JM owns a video production company that works exclusively with corporates in the finance world to help investors raise money with compelling videos.

Here's a sneak peek at what you'll hear:

  • Why JM's about as busy as Post Malone's tattoo artist despite the pandemic and a wounded economy. - 2:20
  • JM nonchalantly drops a gem on niching down your business for maximum profits. - 3:05
  • deviously clever thing JM did in 2017 that now has him sittin' pretty. - 3:40
  • A new and wide-open market that videographers who have the nous and the cojones to enter it… can make out like bandits.
  • The ballsy thing JM did as a punk kid that landed him a job on a Hollywood movie set. (This is perhaps the best way to get a job anywhere in any industry, yet hardly anyone does this. - 6:05)
  • Why JM was walking through the Hawaiian jungle alongside Jack Black, Ben Stiller, and Robert Downey Junior. (Hear this name-dropping tale at 7:00)
  • Den gives a basic sales lesson that almost everyone has heard, yet almost nobody uses this basic knowledge in their sales and marketing messages. - 10:50
  • Why every videographer should become a keen student of storytelling and persuasion. - 18:00
  • A foolish mistake that even grizzled veteran videographers make when dealing with a would-be client. (Not only is this foolish, but it kills your ability to persuade. - 19:30)
  • Golden advice for winning in business and in life. - 20:00
  • Gary Vaynerchuk's 3-word rant to all business owners. It's hard to argue with this one. Hear this beauty at 22:30
  • Wise words from Den on how to have a profitable business that you enjoy as opposed to having a profitable business that sucks the living soul out of you. - 22:15
  • JM spits some old fashioned and wholesome truths you can never hear too often. - 26:00
  • A reliable "acid test" that tells you whether you should take on a client or not. (If you’re ever not sure whether to take on a certain client or not, just ask yourself the question mentioned at 27:30 and bingo!... you'll have your answer.)
  • The case for targeting corporate clients if you're a videographer. - 28:00

About JM Schoeny

Jon-Michael "JM" Schoeny is the founder of Eternal Perspective Productions. He loves creating awesome video content for Brands, Businesses, and Entrepreneurs to help them succeed & bring their vision to life. He has over 15 Years of Video Production and Audio Production experience and has worked on multiple Feature Films and TV Shows. Over the past 3 years JM has also ventured into providing state of the art Multicam Livestreaming services across the US which you can learn more at, and - When he's not creating content and telling stories, JM enjoys traveling and going on adventures with his wife and two sons.


Connect with Den on LinkedIn

Connect with JM Schoeny on LinkedIn

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Episode Transcription


Den Lennie (2s):
Hey guys, it's Den here with an episode of the how to scale a video business podcast. Today, you have a guess JM Schoeny. JM is someone that I met when I was prospecting on LinkedIn. And when I came across JM and asked a question, how are things since the beginning of the year, he said, he's never been busier. And that was such an unusual response. Outside of my video business accelerator, I meeting a lot of stories of him, people who are suffering because of the whole change that's happened in our society in the last six months.

Den Lennie (32s):
But JM is actually got busier. So it was intrigued. I wanted to get him on the shore. And I'm so glad I did because he's a fascinating guy who lives in Nashville, Tennessee, but it started like making feature films in Hawaii. And there's an incredible story that I know how he ended up can have, you know, we're getting married and they got a proper job as a TSA officer or something was burning away at him. And he got back into video production and now works exclusively with corporates in the finance world, helping companies who our investors raise money with compelling video stories.

Den Lennie (1m 8s):
So I think you're gonna really enjoy this episode. I wanted to share his story with you because it's so interesting. And just before we get started, please do that. Love this comp that this podcast on iTunes on any of those other platforms, you're on our, share it with your friends, and if he can leave us or a few that really helped us as well. So I appreciate you being here and enjoy the episode. So JM, I want to just preface our chat here with the fact that I was reaching out to connections on LinkedIn.

Den Lennie (1m 40s):
And during that process, a lot of people were telling me about how tough things were, how bad things were there and you came on and said, I never been busier. And I was like, immediately in my ears were a practice because that is what my clients are experiencing. And so I wanted to get you on to share your story with like, why have you never been busier? So perhaps first of all, John Michael, you can, you can tell us a bit about what's going on for you right now and why you think you've never been busier.

Den Lennie (2m 10s):
When many people in the video space are stressing and complaining, there was no work.

JM Schoeny (2m 17s):
Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on I'm super stoked to connect with you and everything that you and I have talked about from LinkedIn too. Even right now, his, like, I think, you know, I think the same with a lot of areas and seeing opportunities whenever there's flexes and changes in markets, that means just because there's a downturn for some people, there is plenty of opportunity for other things. So to answer your question for me, like you said, It, this is the busiest I've ever been. I've had my company Eternal Perspective Productions for the past six and a half years, I did feature films and TV show.

JM Schoeny  (2m 48s):
Before that So got to see how it was done on a big scale, starting my own company and just kind of started out like everybody else, but figuring out whatever jobs kind of came around and small budget, low budget, no budget, all that kind of stuff that came my way. But I had my aha moment a couple of years ago where I just really focused on a certain niche and a certain type of client. And that's a lot of people that our corporate and investing world in angel investors and investment in banks, I've just learned.

JM Schoeny (3m 18s):
It was like, well, if they have bigger budgets and have bigger clients than I could do bigger jobs. So I've had that the past couple of years, but with COVID I also started, I saw an opening in 2017 and I started, I was in San Diego. So I bought before that was on Kauai. So I got And they were wide open for $20 for the domain name. And in 2017 streaming wasn't a necessity, but I just thought it was like, well, 20 bucks. And I could see the potential of doing this.

JM Schoeny (3m 48s):
So I've been sitting on, those are the past three years and when covert came around, everybody needed to a live stream. And I just happened to have all the craziest tech four Livestreaming. I had the great URLs, the Yelps, the, all the stuff was already in place. So that's been a huge uplift in addition to regular video production and promos in campaigns live stream is like the crazy wild West open market right now for a lot of videographers that I know are, are still trying to figure it out. And they're a little bit scared of it, but I feel like, Oh, I've been doing this the past few years on a professional scale already Multicam and redundant internet and all this kind of stuff.

JM Schoeny (4m 28s):
So it's just kind of like I was right place right time. And I feel really blessed to be in this spot right now.

Den Lennie (4m 33s):
I loved that, you know, one of our clients, Torneo New Jersey from AGI media. He was on the podcast a few months back talking about this very thing. And I was on a call within this morning just before I jumped in with you and a guy. And he's like, man, we are slammed. We have so much work. He said, we're not doing a big scale, huge scale zooms, four major, major clients like the president's righthand man is like his speaking at their events. And, it seemed credible. Yeah.

Den Lennie (5m 3s):
So I love that you have jumped on that opportunity. Tell me about your background. So you said you'd worked in feature films. How did that evolve from Films and, and to cooperate? Because for, for a lot of people, the idea of corporate is one of the there's a snobbery, right? People think that corporate somehow dumbing down what you're doing, that's not what I believe, but, but tell me about your journey.

JM Schoeny (5m 26s):
Yeah. So the first start was from when I was little, I had like my Sony Handycam height recording on there, shooting home videos, and we had the night vision on there, then when they went to digital ate, then we were like, Oh, we're still recorded on tape. What we can put on the computer had the Canon ZR 65 with mini DV and all that kind of stuff in filming skateboarding and editing our skate videos and bails videos and all of that. So Video has been there my whole life. And when we lived in California, I'm from Southern California, born and raised. And when we were, we lived up in Lake Arrowhead, which is right there by big bear, cool snowboarding kind of area in Southern California.

JM Schoeny (6m 3s):
Yeah. And there was a movie set and I was 15 and my mom was driving for me and I was like, mam, pull over. There's a MoVI right there. I went to see if I could help. And I just went up to the set and I'll be like, Hey, can I help you guys? And like, well, you're a miner. You can do it for four hours. You can't work a full eight. And there was some horror movie. He was like a bee kind of horror movie that I worked on that. And I learned a lot and I got to work as a art department, PA and I got IMDV credit when I was 15. And I was like, Whoa, I can actually maybe do this. Then I found like local kind of production company's to volunteer at it. And then we moved to Kauai.

JM Schoeny (6m 34s):
I actually, in 2006, got a job with a lot of the local public access TV station and my role as technical director, but it was still like a VHS switcher type of thing station. And I faded in and faded out the public access five minute window where people could just talk about whatever they wanted. But that year, the next year, 2007, everybody is saying Dreamworks has coming in and there's going to be a big movie. And that was actually Tropic thunder. And so I was 17 went and knocked on that section DOR and said, Hey, here's my little resume.

JM Schoeny (7m 4s):
Can I help? And there, like you can copy papers and scripts for two days that turned into two weeks. Then one day there was a call that they needed onset PA thing. And I'm working in the jungle with Jack Black and Ben Stiller, and Robert Downey, Junior when I was 17, actually had my 18th birthday on the set one day. So I know that just kind of let the fire more. And then in Kauai, there was a lot of Production. So I've got to work on the fourth part of the Caribbean. I did some reality TV shows. I did a George Clooney movie. It did soul surfer. I did a season of the bachelor in Hollywood after that. So it just kind of lit my fire.

JM Schoeny (7m 35s):
And I was like, well, I wanted to go to film school since I was younger. But then I just learned on these sets and got paid to do it and asked all of the industry vets went from that and did that. So at a time when I was 22, I had this crazy Dreamworks, Disney, bachelor, all this stuff on my resume. And I learned all that, but then 20, too, I got married. So my wife and I in the next two weeks is our nine year anniversary. So has been nine years or so being married. And we have two kids now, but her parents in 22, one of the, of the steady job.

JM Schoeny (8m 7s):
So I ended up pivoting and actually got a job at TSA to do it airport security. So I had the super steady federal job for department of Homeland security. But after doing that a couple of years, it was just like eating my sole, like to take people's water's and Pat them down and be yelled at every day in multiple languages by multiple people. It was like, Oh yeah. So I knew that it was always a stepping stone. And just to kind of, I wanted to show my, my future in laws that I wanted to honor them and just do the right thing.

JM Schoeny (8m 38s):
And so, but I think I started my company in 2014 with Eternal Perspective Productions just as a two-fold reason. It, it was, I knew that or that creative outlet again, and we needed some extra income because we had one son at the time. So just the TSA income we are scraping by. So, and like, man, I can make money and be creative. So that was already six plus years ago, six and a half years ago. So it was just out of that. And I started with doing videos for our church and videos for different people.

JM Schoeny (9m 9s):
And it went to small businesses and I never focused on weddings. Cause I always seen that was like a, of a race to the bottom for budgets, with a lot of people. Obviously there are a lot of, or a good few select big budget, kind of really established wedding videographers and photographers and all that. But that was never my focus. I had probably done five weddings, maybe total, but they've all been friends and family and the rest or the past six or seven years, I've done over 600 videos with my company, but they've mostly been corporate brand campaigns, short form, some 22-minute pilot episodes for like pure Flix and these online platforms, but mostly short form, like a lot of storytelling.

JM Schoeny (9m 49s):
But one last little thing before we go to your next part is what I've seen in corporate is that there is a huge need for storytelling and Epic visuals and doing amazing stuff while helping companies raise capital or do X amount in sales or get this many eyes on their awareness campaign. And to do that with amazing crazy visuals is really where I thrived. So whenever I meet with clients, I say like my whole goal is to make Epic content with whatever I do.

JM Schoeny (10m 20s):
And if we know where we're going, we have like our plan, what you, what you want the video and campaign to do, then I can do what I'm good at is telling stories, doing crazy awesome visuals, and then getting your results.

Den Lennie (10m 33s):
I love that story so much are so many incredible moments and there, the one I wanna pick up on JM is, you know, the storytelling part because human beings are predisposed to make decisions based on emotional reactions and emotional responses. Anything we, by on any level, his first of all, at the emotional decision, which is then backed up with logic. One of the things that I think is so fascinating about the corporate world is that the corporate world is no longer this dry, you know, a three-D CCD camcorder, a videographer shows up and just records, corporates and startups, and people are looking for funding.

Den Lennie (11m 17s):
They want to excite their audience. And don't you think since the world has changed, people are spending more time-consuming contents, so great looking content, it actually matters more. Or how did you, how did you go from like, you know, leaving the TAC in starting a video production business to two, to being in 2020, working for finance companies and gender and companies that raise capital. How did you, how did you get that break? How did you get in front of those people?

JM Schoeny (11m 50s):
Yeah. I mean, a big thing is a kind of putting yourself the right spot and the right rooms. And I had a lot of awesome, good business mentors of people that were either at our church or people that were new in the community. I put myself in a lot of creative circles with a lot of agencies there in San Diego. Cause we were at, we had moved from Kauai to San Diego in 2012. So I was there the past seven years. So there's a, a bunch of awesome creative people in San Diego doing amazing agency stuff, design stuff, photography, video, all that.

JM Schoeny (12m 20s):
So it's the whole community. There is basically community over competition. So it's opposite of the LA kind of Hollywood where people are doggy dog, diego's just like, Hey, well, let's all help each other out. Also, if you asked for this job, you sent me out for this one. So that really helped with learning the craft. But then also in San Diego, it's a really heavy startup ecosystem, have a lot of awesome FinTech, biotech, med-tech, all that kind of stuff. Coming out of these universities. A lot of that's a huge investment community.

JM Schoeny (12m 52s):
Now it kind of went from Silicon Valley. Then we went to like Silicon beach in Santa Monica. And then now in San Diego, it's a huge startup ecosystem. And so the people I knew, we were also business owners that I was doing cool content for and training series that were in these circles so that they started me bringing me kind of in the room of these people. And I just saw the need, like you said, have we're all humans. We all wanna feel something we all wanna be entertained and hears stories.

JM Schoeny (13m 23s):
But for these fundraising campaigns and other things, they also need the facts and figures to make a decision to write a cheque. But so I just learned that I'm always trying to learn. I'm always been like a sponge. I have taken courses on the science of storytelling and the story arcs in the conflict and all that kind of stuff that goes with it. So I'm always trying to be a student of doing stuff better, but just seeing that, how you can pair business results with storytelling, awesome visuals, and then getting results.

JM Schoeny (13m 55s):
Like you can't, it's like a perfect combination of all these things that come together. And most people, when you explain it, they get it, but they don't get it till you like lay it out for them. So C if it seems like its so easy, but until you get that aha moment of that light bulb turning on, it's not, not everybody is like on that same wavelength.

Den Lennie (14m 15s):
Amazing, amazing. And, and the whole About from trans how you translate that into a business. I mean How because, you know, I oftentimes people who are on the finance space, there are very cost-conscious and a lot of startups don't have a lot of money, even though they, they kind of, they, they want to get their message out there as that it's kind of a disconnect between what they want to achieve and how much money they've got. How do you bridge that gap as a business owner? How do you, what is your process for convincing them that they should invest more money than their perhaps wanting too to tell a story?

JM Schoeny (14m 53s):
Yeah. I think it's a combination, have a few things and now that I have more successful campaigns and cool case studies, it's easier for me to do, but the base is still is even starting at the end. And I feel like my process instead of starting with the what in the How you've probably heard of that book start with why would by Simon Sinek and then so I've kind of, for me, I always am thinking about my wife. Why of why I'm passionate about video or why I'm doing this, this, because I want to help people with the gifts and talents that I have to move the needle for their business, for their finances, for their income, for their message.

JM Schoeny (15m 28s):
So I always start with my why of like, why I'm passionate about this and why I'm even in the room with them. And the second thing is trying to find out there why But and then taking it to what the end goal is and what the ROI or what the wind is for them. And I always ask them like, what's the win or like the accomplish dream for you so we can meet and then exceed that goal. So like that framing it from there because we need to know where we're going because he was Epic. Visuals are great.

JM Schoeny (15m 57s):
But if they're just done just to be flashy and their not pointed, and there's not a story that's leaving people somewhere, then there is no purpose to them or it will fall flat. So it was basically like the T the kind of fundamentality of like, where are we getting them? Where do we want them to see, feel, think are all that kind of stuff that goes into it. So I feel like we have like on a more scientific instead of just let's just fill them and get the craziest the role we can and hope for the best is really understanding them and their messaging and how they speak and who their audience is.

JM Schoeny (16m 29s):
And I really feel like I'm a chameleon. A lot of the times where I come in, I really want to take on their branding. And I asked questions of like, what are we trying to do? What are we, why do you guys think this way? Or is it like for me, I enjoy learning. So if I'm doing like last year I worked with I'm a start up and they do all this crazy medical devise and their goal is to raise 3 million. And I said, well, what do you guys do? And they told me about their crazy awesome is with neuropathic pain, it's a topical the way they do it, there is no, they have crazy awesome patients that they're getting great results with.

JM Schoeny (17m 3s):
Yeah. And so I knew that their trying to raise 3 million, I said, well, and there are, they asked me, so, so what does it take to work with you? And what's like a, a budget. I know, well, we could probably get a Kool three minute promo and do a day of pre-production a shoot day in, day out, one day a post and start at like the 5,000 range. And then in the same sentence, he said, well, what can you do with 10,000? I was like, well, so like just kind of saying the bar, cause then we have to do talk facts and figures and different things that come into play. But that was after we discussed what they're doing, why it was cool, why they needed the money.

JM Schoeny (17m 37s):
And the cool thing is we ended up doing a four and a half minute promo and we did, it went a little bit longer cause we've had so much great content. And then we did two client testimonials that were three minutes. So we did three videos that 10,000 and they raise 3.8, 5 million. So they got 850,000 oversubscribed and the CEO and the founder he's really cool, but he told me if we didn't have these videos, we wouldn't have raised this and we didn't even go public with it. We just sent it to people's emails for the investors. So we did a full, just email-driven, invest campaign with three videos, and they oversubscribed by 850,000.

JM Schoeny (18m 14s):
So those kind of stories are like help my why of like, man, this really works. And I love being able to tell cool stories and do an Epic visual's, but to see the When for this company and for them to not only hit their goal but then exceed it. That's why I say like, how do we hit and then exceed it. And like these kinds of stories are like, wow, this actually works. And it drives me in, it fires me up is so when I get in the room with future clients and people that are interested in like, look, we've done this, we can do whatever you guys are thinking plus more if we do it right.

Den Lennie (18m 50s):
I love that. It reminds me of a story, have a friend of mine who had a big social media agency and they were doing a moderating, big accounts like Sony and other European accounts. And they approached us probably about eight years ago to make some internal kind of a case study videos or are they talking about their Why? And some of the things happen. He made that video or, and they had an interest in bio coming in from Canada.

Den Lennie (19m 20s):
And then I think this will the company for 10 million. So it was like for what they spend on the videos. He said these videos got the attention of this company that's a bigger player. And I think that what, what, what filmmakers oftentimes miss, and I think that we bring us back to why, why there's such a disconnect between those like yourself and your company who are actively thinking about what is the outcome for the client? What does it matter? What would be matters to them as opposed to what great finish can they put in my real?

Den Lennie (19m 51s):
And that is a big disconnect. I feel in the market space. And I would say that less than 5% of all video production companies actually get that it's about, the client's outcome and not Years. Why do you think it to see the pivot? This question slightly, what do you think are so many people are at the moment are, are struggling and this, this current environment, when, when you and I, and my clients are, are experienced in a very different set of circumstances.

JM Schoeny (20m 21s):
Yeah. I mean, from what I've seen in the way I operate, whatever I do, I want to be relational. And that means in business and in marriage and in parenting and in friendships and all that. And that's really been a huge kind of center point of my business is to not treat people as dollar signs and facts and figures and be transactional. The transaction is part of it, but the relationship a lot, most of my clients are friends now through the process after it, that becomes amazing referrals am I'm not even been doing it for the referrals.

JM Schoeny (20m 55s):
I just look at them on a human level. And I think that really helped for me working on these big budget movies and seeing all these stars and everybody that are world famous people. But at the end of day, we all know to sleep. We put on our pants, one leg at a time we're all human. Like obviously our bank accounts might look different. Our lives might be different, but we are still human. We all still function in think and operate mostly have the same. So I just look at people, whether it's a CEO, have a multibillion dollar company or whatever, or whoever I'm working with or an investment bank, it's where people, we probably all have relationships.

JM Schoeny (21m 28s):
We all have hurdles and heartache and things that we go through. So when I focused on that and really go in there in the room and saying like, I wanna help them and I wanna help them achieve whatever they are trying to do. That's different than a lot of other videographers that I've come across. Some that I've known it's been more like you said more about what can I get out of it from like the videographer side or the average kind of video guy mentality. It's like, how do I get paid? How do I keep the lights on?

JM Schoeny (21m 59s):
How do I make a cool reel and then get in and get out? So it becomes more transactional from what I've seen versus relational. So I think for me, that's what I've been one of the big differences that I've kind of zoomed out and looked at my company in my life verses other people write now that I know that are struggling too, that are doing the video.

Den Lennie (22m 18s):
I know Gary Vaynerchuk famously said just f*****g care. Like that was it. That was it. Yeah. It just, anUS I remember taking that on and going, cause I've always had a pretty kind of caring approach to business and some of our mantras will say to me, I'll make it. And you know what, Den, you're too nice, you know, you know, you didn't have to be doing bat. It's like, no, actually I learned years ago that I am who I am and my values are my values. And I only want to work with people who share my values.

Den Lennie (22m 51s):
And if that means I don't grow as fast, I'm okay with that because I'm in this for the long game. And I, I just, I just focused most of my energy on my clients. I used to do a lot more social media used to try and be on Facebook and Instagram to all these channels. And I found myself just exerting an enormous amount of energy, having conversations with people that, that didn't really matter. There were kind of superficial. And when I started reading, just focusing on my clients and on the shore, everything's started to change that.

Den Lennie (23m 23s):
And what I've experienced in the last six months is that the members of my community have been growing stronger. And, and we know we have this philosophy that whatever is going on out there is fine. I'm largely going to ignore it and work on what I can focus on because you're explaining countless examples, just know where Businesses need your help. And then Andrew helps the team take a complex idea and tell a story.

Den Lennie (23m 53s):
What else do you think is going on in the marketplace? That's why are you winning? And when others are, are, are not.

JM Schoeny (24m 2s):
Yeah. I mean, I think I operate, I think that a lot just wanted to help people and I'm done with that kind of person would give my shirt off my back. So whoever, and from my family, my friends is a stranger, a homeless person, like I'm, that's operating from my values have being a Christian. And even with my logo of having the cross of the center of it and wanting to live with an eternal perspective for my own life and bringing that to Business, it's obviously I full credit for me and everything in my life goes to God.

JM Schoeny (24m 33s):
But then also realizing that in my life, like you said, were only can, we can only control so much in our own sphere. And even outside of that, I'm not making my heart beat right now. Or my lungs work are, my sales were like, if you understand how much we really don't have control of and the stuff that we can control our actions and reactions and everything of that nature, I think just helps keep me centered. So even when I meet with clients, I never want to force anybody into a gig. Like I don't want to be a used car salesman. I don't want to be shoving it down their throats.

JM Schoeny (25m 5s):
I'm really there to help. Even before you got, we got on a call, somebody wrote me on LinkedIn and just said, Hey, I just tried to do a live stream and it didn't work. Do you have any ideas? And as somebody, I don't even know. I said, yeah, we'll check. This is like, I just want to provide value. So if we can provide value without even at being a transactional thing, I think, I mean, people can see through that. We have instincts for a reason. We are not dumb. We've seen enough social media and sales and ads and everything that we are all experts to know what's BS and what's not.

JM Schoeny (25m 36s):
So I, I think just knowing that and really willing to help people has really helped me too. Just get on a call and have a conversation and say, this is what we do. This is what I love. I would love to help you guys if it works cool. If it's a not now a thing, if it's a later, I would love to help. In the meantime, I have my little one page PDF, have five tips for a great video, or have another one at seven tips for an amazing live stream presentation. Here is some value. However, it can help you it's is really operating out of that mindset and then the money and the paycheck and everything comes in and its the right people who are also choosing the people that you align with the values of the company that people what they're doing.

JM Schoeny (26m 17s):
And I'm at that point, no, it was like, Oh I can target or are not even target. I can. If people approach me, then I can kind of weed them out and not have to take everything that comes to the door. And then I can choose people that align with me as far as branding or even look and feel or what they stand for and not have to be knocking on everybody's door in forcing them to buy this low-cost offer or whatever.

Den Lennie (26m 40s):
Oh, I love that so much. JM that is that's my music, you know, I think that partly comes down from, from niching as well. And niching, you know, if you know your market, you can go deep into that market. But I agree with you. And I think one of the interesting things about the last six months is that the world has had to stop human beings about to stop going solar, solar sort of what's in it for me and, and everyone has been forced to stay at home and consider what's important. And for me, one of why our highest value is choice and freedom and freedom of being able to choose who you work with when you work with them and what your terms for that, that relationship is.

Den Lennie (27m 22s):
And I agree with you and I mean my, my clients or all my friends, I actually have a measure of when I'm, when I'm talking to someone about practice joining our program is I say, one of my measures is, is wood. I have you run my house for a barbecue with all my other members.

JM Schoeny (27m 35s):
Could you have a drink with that? And hang out

Den Lennie (27m 37s):
Was absolutely key. And I think that one of the greatest benefits of this, this change in our world is that you can choose who you work with. And it. And I think if you chase the money and chase the money alone, you will fail. If you align yourself with what is important to you, whereas the most value you can bring and you genuinely go into every situation, one thing, nothing in return, that is where the magic happens.

JM Schoeny (28m 8s):
Hmm. I, I completely agree. And we, we both know it's like these people that we're speaking with, they do have marketing budgets, they do value our services. And that's the cool thing is working with these people that aren't penny-pinching per se, that actually know that great quality production costs money. These are the actually the people that give us more freedom to express it through creativity. I realize the lower-paying clients at a lower-paying budget were the most demanding and the most there, the hardest to please they were wanting 20 edits later without paying for it.

JM Schoeny (28m 42s):
Like, but the higher paying clients, I got, the more they allowed me to just do what I was good at and be a professional because they don't have the time to micromanage. And they also don't have the expertise in the reason that they are hiring me. You, whoever else that's doing this is because they realize that they can't do it. And they are already to move the needle, they need people that are experienced. So I've just realized that its like, and you get on to the right rooms and the right companies with the right budgets. It actually gives you more flexibility.

JM Schoeny (29m 12s):
So if anything, the bigger budget jobs are more welcomed to me, not just for the paychecks, but its like flexibility and freedom. And those are some of my best real work is from like huge corporate jobs because they said like make cool videos. I had one company where I did a five Video campaign across the US. And the only thing they said was making awesome content. And I had asked the questions. I did the interviews, I did the Beaver, all that stuff. And then they sent me around to fly and filming all these cool videos, have these professional competition shooters that are the best in the world.

JM Schoeny (29m 46s):
So I got to tell their Why story and what motivated them. And I had to take their hour and a half interview. Cause I was so interested in making into two and a half a minute videos. But I mean, you know, like when you're interviewing, you can hear all the sound bites in the golden nuggets and stuff. So like I'm editing in real-time in my head as we were doing the interviews. But that to this day as one of like an amazing five Video reels that you have of like, this is a crazy client campaign that they just had make cool stuff and then they let me run. Like, so that's, that's the freedom for anybody that's even listening right now.

JM Schoeny (30m 20s):
It's, don't be afraid. So much of the big companies, the big box ones or the big budget. So the banks or anything like that, they are wanting storytelling. They are wanting Epic visuals just as much as you are wanting to create those, they're just looking for somebody to come alongside them and say, we can do this for ROI cause they have to hit these markers and these metrics. So standby your visual, standby your storytelling. But then also stand by your ROI on your metrics because that has also going to allow them to write the checks and clear the budget to give to you.

Den Lennie (30m 53s):
JM what a great place to wrap this conversation up. I will link to your website beneath this at I just want to finish by saying, you know, I got a big, great bit of advice recently and that someone said this to one of our calls that are like, you know, when you're, when you're working with the corporation, those people that are spending somebody else's money, when you weren't with a mom and pop business, there are spending their own money. There are two very different clients and I would always encourage and more of what you're seeing, which is go to the carpets, your dealing with a human being to build the relationships.

Den Lennie (31m 27s):
And from there you want to have any issues you will get to do all of the creative things you wanna do. JM its been great to talk to you and thanks so much for sharing your story.

JM Schoeny (31m 36s):
Great. Thanks. Den it was great talking and chatting. Well I'm sure we'll talk again soon.

Den Lennie (31m 41s):
Hey guys. Thanks for watching. I hope you've got a huge amount of value from that episode. If you're looking for additional support or resources to support your business journey and head over to, where you can get a whole heap of other resources, free downloads, and access all the other episodes in the series, be sure to subscribe and I'll see you next time.



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